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  • Abortion

    Profile photo of newyork409

    Over a year ago

    So I know this has nothing to do with animal rights but I wanted the opinions from fellow vegans and vegetarians on this. What do you think about abortion? I am 100% pro-life and because I know many of us support the idea of life preservation for all walks of life, I am interested to know how you feel about this matter.

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  • Profile photo of Ayita

    Over a year ago

    I have no problem with abortion, there are medical reasons ans in cases of rape they may not want the child which is clearly understandable. Now some may say its bot the child’s fault which is true but the mentality of the mother needs to be noticed- she had been raped and now has to raise the child everyday when she looks at her child it is pretty much a reminder of his conception; that would be a unhealthly relationship for both mother and child. There are some that say put the child up for adoption – which is nice but many children that are put up for adoption will fall into one of three categories 1. Placed into a good home 2. Go from foster care to foster care 3. Never get adopted – for most children options 2 & 3 are more likely to happen, some children based on their race are more likely to be adopted that others,also after watching the lifetime film ‘Babysellers’ some children may have been kidnapped from their country stolen from their parents and again if a children has blonde hair and blue eyes they go for a higher price. Abortion to me is the choice for the woman to make not her religion or her government.

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  • Profile photo of Helena8664

    Over a year ago

    @stopthisanimalcruelty99 There is pain and heartache involved in abortion as well. Often times the girls don’t even fully understand or know what to expect in doing something like this…it can be very damaging and emotionally scarring.

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  • Profile photo of newyork409

    Over a year ago

    @peacelovepie Firstly I want to address your argument of cells. While many medical abortions are preformed up to twelve weeks pregnant, many others are surgically preformed up to 20 weeks and sometimes even further along depending on the state. Now, a babies heart is already beating by ten weeks and bones are formed by 22. Now our definition of life and potential life is different. I see the potential for life as sperm and an egg for those two things make up a potential life. When an egg is already fertilized, life is already in progression and while miscarrying is always an option, the death of a baby at any age be it 1 week, 37 weeks, or any age is still death. Due to the fact that the process of life was at hand. I value all life and life itself much more than many people and this is the case here. While I agree with your statement about cows, I also find it somewhat irrelevant to the abortion argument because the cow, nor the calf have a choice in their life due to human control. I am obviously against the raping of cows as any vegan is but abortion by definition refers to the termination of a human pregnancy so I will continue with the argument for humans for we would most likely agree when it comes to the exploitation of cows. I have not read the book you are referring to but by your summary I agree that the situation describes the potential for life but no murder is involved if a baby is not even conceived. This is where are opinions diverge. For me, if any form of life must kill to achieve a state of “happiness”, then that form of life has a sad existence in deed. I am all for ending suffering and encouraging happiness where it is needed however I think the unnecessary murder of unborn beings is not a sufficient nor humane way to accomplish this. I also think the excuse of not living in an ideal world is morbid because that allows the belief that murder is acceptable so long at the situation warrants. And although this thought may prove true for a scenario such as self defense, it certainty shouldn’t apply to this argument, where there is no ill intent, only innocent life. Now I don’t mean to say that this world is perfect, yet I fail to understand how the act of murder, no matter how “humane” can be seen as “okay”. I just find it so outlandish that one can hope and strive for a peaceful world when still supporting unnecessary murder and death. If something doesn’t “have” to die, then why is death even an option?

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  • Profile photo of peacelovepie

    Over a year ago

    @newyork409 Though I understand your argument about life being a miracle, an unborn fetus at the time of an abortion has only the potential for life. While life itself is a miracle, sperm meeting an egg and forming a zygote is just a much creepier way of ensuring genetic diversity than asexual reproduction with the hope of mutation. There is a practically infinite potential for reproduction depending on so many factors. A fetus just means it became more likely. It does not necessarily mean that the potential must be fulfilled.
    Have you ever read “Herland” by Charlotte Perkins Gillmore? I read it several years ago when I was going through a very feminist stage while my parents were getting divorced. Each women had the potential for five children, but they produced asexually in a land with no men. When she felt that she was about to concieve a child, she had to prevent that from happening, because Herland was a small place with no room for more than one child per women. She would work hard each time the potential to conceive came upon her, preventing the pregnancy. Only once was she allowed to go through with it so that the population would remain stable. This may not seem especially relevant, but I feel that it should be noted.
    And how about cows on the rape rack? They are forcibly impregnated, and their babies are taken away at birth for a short life, male or female, of pain and misery. A cow has the potential for pain, and therefore likely has the potential for hope, but we know that in their lifetimes, for the vast majority of them it will never get better and they will never know an end to the suffering. Hope is what makes people carry on through suffering – the possibility that that things will get better and the yearning to live. However, these cows have never had any alternative to the mind numbing pain of cruel enslavement. They may hope that the pain will stop, but they have no basis on which to wait for an idyllic pasture. While giving them an idyllic pasture to end their days in may be the ideal solution, it is a huge statistical improbability. Again, I believe in mercy killing to end suffering, and I believe that the cow would prefer an end to the pain than continuing a hopeless life. Hope needs something to strive for, and when the best thing in your life is a temporary end to the pain, a painless death is merciful.
    Back to the main topic at hand, abortion. “yay.” I don’t believe that the potential for life is as great as you obviously believe it is. While that is your opinion, I do care to continue my argument. While you define it as life, I see it more as something that was one possibility to be fulfilled. Once it is actually aware, then it is a different story by far, but while it is still in the couple cell state, that is not life. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t see abortions as a viable way to prevent pregnancy when irresponsibility was the cause, but I do believe it serves purposes other than medical. I don’t believe that going around smashing bird eggs is good, but it is more important to take care of the living birds who need help than each individual egg, many of whom will not survive based on predators or other unpleasant scenarios. It is more important to provide clean water, enough food, warm clothes, and a safe home to the people who are already around than obsess over each potential human who can be born into either happiness or misery. While in an ideal world, no one would have a child that they were unprepared for or could not care for, this is not an ideal world. Many people are stuck in s**tty places and horrible situations. It is more important to increase the happiness of the world as a whole by raising people up than adding to the potential for misery or happiness to devalue people in the world’s eyes even more. The loss of potential sucks it’s true, but it is more important to discover the potential that already exists.
    Also, some people give the bs argument that people may have aborted the next Einstein. However, just as validly, they may have aborted the next Hitler. There is potential for both. That is not my argument, but it is my response to one abortion argument I find particularly annoying.

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  • Profile photo of newyork409

    Over a year ago

    @peacelovepie I can agree that mercy is a great thing and many who are suffering be it animal, human, or plant may benefit from the peace that death can hold. However, this does not justify murder, which is what abortion is. In the case of rape, what about the unborn baby? I understand that the women involved is in no way responsible for what happened but what about the baby? They are not to blame anymore that the rape victim is. The difference between the two is that one is capable of saving life, and the other is not. Abortion may not be black and white but when it comes down to it, life is the number one thing involved. The question is, is a life worth everything involved to take care of it or is it not? Isn’t that an ignorant question? When speaking of adoption I mean an agreement with another family that you work closely with which ensures a family for the baby. There are plenty of families and programs like this out there. I think the act of murder in order to prevent suffering is also irresponsible because of the lack of concern for the unheard opinion. This is another’s life we are talking about. No matter the situations surrounding it, shouldn’t saving the life be of the utmost importance due to the fact that the life involved doesn’t get a say in what happens to it? Many people would rather die than suffer but I also look at those suffering in third world countries and although their quality of life maybe poor, I know they would prefer to live on. I can understand your argument concerning a dairy cow’s suffering. However, no one knows whether the cow would choose life or death in this scenario so what is the safer option, life right? So in the case of an unborn baby, who cannot voice their thoughts on their own life, wouldn’t life be safer than death? Or is it safe to assume that just because suffering may be involved further in life, it is acceptable to take said life away. The point I am really trying to push here is that one voice is missing from the life vs. death argument. And that is the one belonging to the life in question. So my question to you is, is it okay with you if someone saw you suffering and thought it okay to kill you because of it without asking your opinion? Do you think that it is better that they assume death for you or life? When they cannot accurately understand your thoughts on the matter. In a case where the life in question cannot voice their feelings on the matter of their own future, I think life will always be the best choice. The very fact that many would choose to suffer instead of die shows just how precious life is. How could one take a life from the world without even knowing the other sides feelings? That is selfish. That is ignorant. And that is an assumption where life is concerned which is an area where assumption should NEVER be welcomed.

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