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  • Abortion

    Profile photo of newyork409

    Over a year ago

    So I know this has nothing to do with animal rights but I wanted the opinions from fellow vegans and vegetarians on this. What do you think about abortion? I am 100% pro-life and because I know many of us support the idea of life preservation for all walks of life, I am interested to know how you feel about this matter.

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  • Profile photo of lizforanimalrights16

    Over a year ago

    @peacelovepie I find your comment completely offensive and rude, even if you didn’t want to offend. Also, you 100% misinterpreted what I meant and said. Therefore, I apologize beforehand, for acting defensive.

    Number one: I never said that all humans should move to Texas, I would DESPISE living in Texas. It would also, be completely unrealistic. And as you said, there would be no life.

    Number two: This was suppose to prove the ‘overpopulation’ argument for pro death (‘choice’) wrong. I took a whole lesson on why ‘humans are overpopulating the world is BS’ it taught me a lot. If you were to talk to my teacher, you would learn so much about this myth. If all humans were to move to Texas (hypothetically speaking) there would still enough room for EVERY single person to walk in about a classroom size. This is a fact, contrary to your belief of we’d be “crowded.” I am not saying that we should all move to Texas and OF COURSE, if we did we’d have horrible lives.

    Number three: I NEVER said that the whole world should go vegan, that’s unrealistic. However, if they did, nothing would happen. The only thing that would happen is that people will eat vegan food, help the environment, and be healthier.

    To the last point, abortion is not the solution to ‘overpopulation’ because number one: humans aren’t overpopulating the planet. Number two: killing a innocent human being is not the solution to this myth just as killing deer isn’t the solution to the ‘overpopulation of deer.’ The only problem that has been brought up by abortion is the really the it’s immoral and unethical argument not overpopulation.

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  • Profile photo of peacelovepie

    Over a year ago

    @newyork409 I am vegan, and reluctantly pro-choice. I say reluctantly because I agree that irresponsibility should not be an accepted excuse, but I think that saying there is no reason to get an abortion is too black and white. Also, my definition of veganism is less of preservation of life than prevention of suffering. I understand that you would still have liked to live through all you have lived through if you had a choice, but personally I feel that the problems that come from being unwanted or abused are very psychologically threatening, and start a vicious cycle of abuse and misery. I think also that your statement, “just put it up for adoption”, does not justify banning non-medical abortion. Women who were raped or were victims of some mistake that was not their fault should not have to face the consequences of someone else’s cruelty or negligence. Many women who wanted to be pregnant become depressed during and after pregnancy, so consider how damaging it is for unwilling mothers. And while I do not believe that abortion is the solution to overpopulation, I do think that started vicious cycles of unwanted pregnancies is irresponsible and that there are already millions of children available for adoption who are instead lost to the foster care system or abusive families because of both bureaucracy and unfair discrimination of adoptive parents. Once children get past a certain age, they are very unlikely to be adopted, and I think more focus should go onto lifting them out of the cycle than preserving new life to come into misery. No one’s life is perfect, but forcibly condemning some one to a horrible life to “save” them and preserve their life goes against my ideals. Consider a dairy cow who is assured not to be ever eaten — they are still enslaved, and the refuges cannot support millions of cows. They are being condemned to a miserable life, and if they had never been born, then there would not have been the potential for this misery. I also believe in mercy euthanasia, because someone should not be selfishly kept alive if they are in so much pain that they are willing to accept death as the most reasonable solution. At that point, keeping them alive is cruel, and that is what my personal vegan standards are trying to prevent.

    @lizforanimalrights16 Even if everyone in the world went to Texas, we would still be overpopulated and need to feed all those people. There would be no room to work or produce food. Even if everyone went onto a vegan diet, people would also have to give up a lot more of their comfortable lifestyles for the world to not be damaged, and very little of the food could be produced in Texas. Skyscrapers would have to be built to house everyone, and billions of new jobs would have to be created. Eventually there would be not space left, and the world would be spent with all the land being used for food. Therefore, while abortion is not the solution to overpopulation, it is definitely a real problem that cannot be forgotten.

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  • Profile photo of newyork409

    Over a year ago

    @lizforanimalrights16 I am SO happy someone agrees. Killing is never an option and it especially shouldn’t be a choice. More people need to see that life comes first. Before anything. I thought veganism was about more than animals. That it included the environment and humanity as a whole. There are so many problems in the world and if vegans ever expect to make a change, they can’t condone murder, in any form. That is hypocritical. We have to stand together as advocates for ALL life, otherwise we are fighting a battle among ourselves.

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  • Profile photo of lizforanimalrights16

    Over a year ago

    @newyork409 I completely agree with you. After I read this conversation, I feel exactly as you do. Part of me is confused and a bit disappointed in (what I thought) were compassionate human vegans. I always just to think that veganism went beyond not eating meat and animal products. I thought it was a compassionate lifestyle FOR ALL CREATURES. I thought veganism was more than a diet and choice. I personally, have respect for all creatures; from the biggest elephant and whale all the way down to unborn babies and ants. But, I guess not all my fellow vegans feel the same. I thought it wasn’t suppose to be about species, all life deserves respect. I feel that I can’t discriminate against a human, animal, baby, or even a plant simply because it’s another species than I. I also, feel that I don’t have the dominion over a baby human simply because it is in another life form as I. I too, went through that life form at one point. We all started out the same way, which makes us all equals, how can we then have dominion over a human just because they are in a different life form than us? To me it’s like killing a bird’s eggs or a turtle’s eggs is the same thing as killing a fetus. I personally think it’s wrong to kill both. Why can’t others see this connection?

    I am quite shocked at the ‘overpopulation’ argument. Number one: If we would to grab all the humans in the world and put them all in Texas, we’d all fit and we’d have about a classroom of space to walk around. Also, I feel that the pro-choice ‘human overpopulation’ argument is the same as the hunters argument of the ‘deer overpopulation’ one. Killing the babies isn’t the solution just like killing the deer isn’t the solution.

    I agree with your choice opinion. I personally, don’t think eating meat is a ‘personal choice’ any more because what about the animal? Did they have a choice? No. You did and you decided to stop a beating heart. Same thing with unborn babies. Did they have a choice? No. Eating meat is an unethical because we don’t need to eat it. Having an abortion is unethical (not in medical, etc cases) because we don’t need to have abortions. I see the connection, why can’t others?

    I think it’s quite sad to read some of these comments. I really don’t want to offend you or anyone else though, I just had to say this. Most of us fight to safe animal’s eggs. We disagree with killing a bird’s egg, a fish’s egg, and a turtle’s eggs why can’t we fight to protect humans too? I think it’s great that we save animals and protect them but now we also need to help humans. If it’s wrong to kill a kitten or an eagle’s egg then it’s wrong to kill a fetus. Hopefully, one day more of us will see the connection and our compassion will overrule. We will not discriminate against race, sex, sexual orientation, etc and we will also not discriminate against species or different forms of life. One day, we will all be able to make the connection and chose compassion for ALL CREATURES :)

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  • Profile photo of newyork409

    Over a year ago

    I am just putting this out there but how can one be vegan and be pro-choice? It obviously happens and its your own opinion but I though we are all for saving lives? The preservation of ALL life. Do babies not get this privilege? The idea that a women gets a choice to abort is the same argument that a human gets a choice to eat animals. They both involve “choices” and they both involve death. So why is one seen differently than the other.Life is life. Choices should NEVER be put before life. What kind of cruel idea is it that a life is expendable just for the sake of a choice? I would die before ever aborting my baby just as I would die before I ever killed an animal. There is no difference, it’s life. Life isn’t replaceable it doesn’t matter the species.

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