Damn, I wish you could ‘like’ posts on here like on facebook, anyways, golf clap to @Styna you articulated the whole stance *beautifully*.

I was a vegetarian before I was vegan. At this moment in time, I don’t understand why. I ordered all those vegetarian starer kits from Peta, Mercy for Animals, COK, ect. ect. and read them cover to cover MANY times over, but yet I was still vegetarian. I went vegan after just a few months of being vegetarian, after constantly(but politely!) being nudged on another vegan/vegetarian forum. I don’t know why I didn’t do it earlier. It’s very easy and I can’t imagine going back to eating eggs and milk(I’ll never be anything less than vegetarian, I’ve developed an allergy to meat at this point ).

@ashleysykes134
The entire point of activism is making people aware of the industries they are supporting. @VeganCaramel is absolutely correct by stating that vegetarians are still supporting cruelty to and murder of animals, there is no logical way to -deny- that.
Just as there is no logical reason to avoid switching to veganism, and any such claim is absurd.

Realize that you’re on a message board filled with activists. A big part of our lives is showing people the atrocities of the industries they are supporting, and hoping they do the right thing in ending their support of those industries.
Why on earth would we show preference over any specific type of atrocity by limiting our actions to meat-eaters, when the dairy and egg industry are just as bad? That would go against our beliefs as activists.

It’s great when people go vegetarian. But vegetarianism is not a destination, it’s a rest stop for people who don’t want to fully commit to a cruelty free lifestyle.
Naturally, you will try to argue against me.
But there is no GOOD reason to refrain switching to veganism right now.
Any reason you suggest will be countered accordingly.

@VeganCaramel I don’t need to watch anything. I already know what goes on and you can’t say what vegetarians realize and what they don’t realize, you do not know every single vegetarian in the world. And they may have reasons for not going vegan that you don’t know about besides what you think which is “I don’t give a fuck about animals at all.”
Vegetarians can make the switch on their own terms if they feel that’s what right for them. They don’t need to be told that they doing something wrong day in and day out by vegans.

@ashleysykes134, vegetarians simply don’t realize that dairy and eggs cause just as much harm as meat does. The MAJOR problem here is that they think there’s a difference between the sort of torture.

I encourage you to watch these videos and see there’s clearly NO difference
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJ–faib7to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RNFFRGz1Qs

Vegetarians may care, I know, I was one. But there are many caring people out there who don’t know the truth – we shouldn’t just leave them be, we need to let them know. I’ve met a lot of meat eaters who are very charitable people but know absolutely nothing about the abuse and slaughter of animals.

Vegetarians are doing similar to what meat eaters are doing, and it seems to hurt you A LOT that it’s true. Many meat eaters claim to care about animals and say they don’t approve of the torture that goes into making it. Vegetarians claim to care about animals and say they don’t approve the cruelty in dairy or eggs. BUT saying you don’t approve of something DOESN’T make a difference UNLESS you also stop your support of it.

Again, watch the videos, and tell me if you can see any difference. The first video is in a hatchery where male chicks are ground alive. I don’t see how that murder of baby chicks is somehow NOT a murder like that in the meat industry. Why are you choosing which murder to support?

Becoming vegetarian is big, so is becoming vegan, but it’s okay. At least you made the step of becoming a vegetarian, you still saving so many animals. So there’s no reason to feel guilty.

@VeganCaramel I never said anything was wrong with encouragement, I support it greatly, but it’s vegans like you that I am talking about. Vegetarians obviously care about animals but that DOESN’T mean that uprightly approve of the abuse and murder of dairy cows and hatchery chicks.
And vegans shouldn’t treat vegetarians as if they are doing something like meat-eaters.
Vegans and vegetarians have the same views about meat, sorry if that hurts you from saying that, but it is true.

@ashleysykes134 , even though I’m glad when I see vegetarians planning to make the switch to veganism, it still hurts a lot when people think vegetarians and vegans have “the same views”. If we had the same views, vegetarians wouldn’t be supporting animal testing (though some don’t, most do) and the abuse and murder of dairy cows and hatchery chicks!

I’m not going to be glad that people are still hurting animals, but I will be as helpful as I can in their switch to veganism because I was a vegetarian once and I know how accidentally blind society can make someone, even vegetarians, towards the rest of animal cruelty.

Animal rights and animal welfare (exploiting animals “humanely”) ARE different views, and PETA is an animal rights organization. There’s no reason to stay an animal welfarist vegetarian when so many animals suffer and die just for the supposed “cruelty free vegetarian dish”. I know if we just encourage vegetarians, rather than telling them they’re fine where they are, that many WILL acknowledge it’s not just preference to be vegan, it is necessity.

I agree. Vegans just need to be glad that vegetarians are at least trying and have the same views as them.

I was a vegetarian for like 18 years before I became a vegan, so give yourself some time and do the best you can! Slowly cutting out cheese and egg and switching to soy milk might help! Good luck!

Hi, is it cost of avaibility of products keeping you back or family? You can make small changes for now like others have suggested, nut mils are found in most stores now and walmart should have earth balance, some versions of smart balance now are also vegan, check their website. You can also reduce your egg consumption and cheese. But being vegetarian is still doing alot!

Gotta agree with VeganCarmamel on this one

I was a vegetarian for years before going vegan and it was way easier then I thought and so motivational for me when I switched

You have been veg for a short time but going vegan is so easy

-There are plenty of vegan milks such as rice, almond, soy, coconut, hemp, sunflower, ect.

- For butter alternative becel sells a vegan margine (says vegan right on the container, which is green) which you should able to find at your walmart for the same price

- For mayo alternatives there is veganise or hummus works well too

- For vegan cheeses you can you daiya cheese but I prefer none

- For baking you can search vegan recipes online or use http://www.peta.org/living/vegetarian-living/baking-cheat-sheet.aspx

Most pastas and breads are vegan, as well as cambell’s tomato soup, premo’s lentil sou, and most amy’s kitchens’ soups. A lot of store bought goods you think would not be vegan are such as oreos so check the ingredients.

I strongly encourage you to make the switch. I’m sorry you will wish you have switched sooner like I do. If you have any more questions feel free to message me.

Don’t feel guilty. Take it one step at a time! I’ve been vegetarian for almost 7 years, but my friends consider me a “weak vegan”. Over these past 7 years I have slowly cut out milk and eggs and now I can’t even imagine putting either of those into my body. If you bake at home, make it vegan! Every little bit helps but you don’t have to jump to the extreme right away. Get used to creating a balanced diet, slowly cut back on one animal product and replace it with a vegan option! No rush! Being a vegetarian is MUCH better than still eating meat!

And @celestiallover637 , you shouldn’t feel bad about eggs because they’re “little chicken abortions” since they aren’t anything like that. Eggs sold in stores are unfertilized, meaning there is no chicken fetus inside them that could have developed into a baby chick.

The real reason to avoid eggs is because not only are most hatcheries atrocious living spaces (http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/egg-industry.aspx) but male chicks in the hatchery business are ground alive or gassed to death.

(Even if they were chicken abortions, a fetus does not feel pain until it has had a great deal of time to develop a nervous system, that development in humans begins somewhere around 18-22 weeks though many don’t count as a proper nervous system until up to 30 weeks. A chicken’s developmental period is shorter, but generally fetal development is said to be quite similar across the animal kingdom!)

Then go vegan. Veganism is almost always an option. You typed this on a computer, maybe even a laptop – your access to the internet suggests that you also have access to a) basic food and shelter and b) all the nutritional information available via the web. It is very easy, you just have to dedicate yourself to it and give up the excuses that stand in your way.

And you’re right, vegetarianism certainly isn’t enough. Dairy cruelty ( http://www.chooseveg.com/dairy.asp ) egg cruelty ( http://www.veganpeace.com/animal_cruelty/eggs.htm ) and even products that claim to be free range or humane ( http://www.peacefulprairie.org/humane-myth.html ) still perpetuate the torture, abuse, and slaughter of billions of animals worldwide. You don’t have to be a part of that.

I have kind of the same issue. I feel guilty kinda about not being vegan, but in fact the only things I eat that are non-vegan is milk chocolate, cheese when I eat spaghetti (not often), and there’s milk in mashed potatoes my mom makes. I only drink vegan milks, and I eat eggs only once a month maybe if it’s on the menu and I’m not sure what to eat instead.